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Heat Pump Troubles
10/28/09 | by Duane | Categories: Announcements [A], Geothermal HVAC Issues
My WaterFurnace Heat Pump is now having problems. It started two nights ago, the system went into FAULT mode. Troubleshooting I found that when the system went into the 2nd stage heat, the system would go into FAULT mode and basically shut down. I shut the system off at the thermostat and then turned off the circuit breakers for both the Heat Pump and Air Handler. I waited two minutes, turned the breakers back on. A minute later I turned the system back on at the thermostat. The system came back and was generating heat once again.
The next morning I found the system in FAULT mode again early in the morning. I reset the system as I did the previous day and it operated for about half an hour before going into FAULT mode again. Resetting the system does not work any more. The system now goes into FAULT mode immediately when Stage 1 powers up.
My system is now in Emergency Heat mode. I had an appointment scheduled this morning with my Geothermal installer. I am awaiting the arrival of the Tech for the repair.
5 comments
Comment from: Duane [Member]
Thursday afternoon someone was on site to check the Heat Pump problem. The WaterFurnace Heat Pump is 5 years old and the first thing found was that the Loop water pump was bad.
The pump was replaced but the FAULT problem still existed. The Heat Pump has a Bristol Compressor in it and apparently there has been a lot of problems with these compressors. I don't know why WaterFurnace has not had a recall on these systems.
Well, after the Tech talked with WaterFurnace I have two options.
Option 1 is that WaterFurnace will replace the Faulty Compressor with a new compressor. The replacement will cost me over $600 since WaterFurnace labor does not cover all the work required. On top of that, there is no warranty on the new replacement compressor.
Option 2 is to have the Premier Heat Pump replaced with a new Envision Heat Pump. Apparently WaterFurnace is providing a discount on the cost of the Heat Pump but it is still costing me over $2000 to replace.
The new pump is supposed to be arriving at the end of the week for installation on next Monday. We'll see.
The pump was replaced but the FAULT problem still existed. The Heat Pump has a Bristol Compressor in it and apparently there has been a lot of problems with these compressors. I don't know why WaterFurnace has not had a recall on these systems.
Well, after the Tech talked with WaterFurnace I have two options.
Option 1 is that WaterFurnace will replace the Faulty Compressor with a new compressor. The replacement will cost me over $600 since WaterFurnace labor does not cover all the work required. On top of that, there is no warranty on the new replacement compressor.
Option 2 is to have the Premier Heat Pump replaced with a new Envision Heat Pump. Apparently WaterFurnace is providing a discount on the cost of the Heat Pump but it is still costing me over $2000 to replace.
The new pump is supposed to be arriving at the end of the week for installation on next Monday. We'll see.
11/03/09 @ 14:37
Comment from: Duane [Member]
Well, my heat pump was replaced on Tuesday November 10th. The new heat pump is a Waterfurnace Envision NDZ038.
I chose option 2 to have the heat pump replaced since the new heat pump has a 10 year warranty.
The replacement of the old unit was fun to say the least. A difference between the old Premier unit and the new Envision unit is that the Desuperheater is now internal to the heat pump. That being said, the old desuperheater was removed.
All temperature sensors have been replaced on the heat pump including the runtime monitors and the power monitor. I am having trouble getting the desuperheater run time monitor to operate. After placing it on the new unit, it worked for about 8 minutes then stopped working. The return ground loop temperature sensor is also not yet working.
Those are the only two casualties so far.
I'm still not pleased with the cost of this fiasco. Geothermal HVAC units are supposed to be easier and less costly to maintain.
So far my payback has been pushed back from 7 years to about 10 years. Now, ask me if I would do this again. I am trying to keep a positive attitude but it is getting increasingly difficult. I won't even say "What else can happen."
I chose option 2 to have the heat pump replaced since the new heat pump has a 10 year warranty.
The replacement of the old unit was fun to say the least. A difference between the old Premier unit and the new Envision unit is that the Desuperheater is now internal to the heat pump. That being said, the old desuperheater was removed.
All temperature sensors have been replaced on the heat pump including the runtime monitors and the power monitor. I am having trouble getting the desuperheater run time monitor to operate. After placing it on the new unit, it worked for about 8 minutes then stopped working. The return ground loop temperature sensor is also not yet working.
Those are the only two casualties so far.
I'm still not pleased with the cost of this fiasco. Geothermal HVAC units are supposed to be easier and less costly to maintain.
So far my payback has been pushed back from 7 years to about 10 years. Now, ask me if I would do this again. I am trying to keep a positive attitude but it is getting increasingly difficult. I won't even say "What else can happen."
11/13/09 @ 09:53
Comment from: Duane [Member]
Last week, the temperature got down to near 0 degrees F for a couple days. After about 23 hours at this temperature the Electric Backup Heat kicked in because the second stage geothermal could not keep up with the demand. It is not even cold yet!
This is of great concern. The previous Premier unit would not call for Electric Backup Heat until the temperature was below zero for a couple days in a row.
Supposedly the problem may be in the timing for the third stage heat call. The air handler is a Bryant unit and has three settings for delay of the third stage heat, 30, 60, and 90 second. I have been told that another relay (variable delay selection more than 90 seconds) should be installed.
I am not really sure about this, trying to grasp the concept. If the second stage geothermal can not keep up with the load, the electric backup heat should kick in. The second stage heat stays on for at least an hour at times before the electric backup heat kicks in.
I think an email to Tech Support for Waterfurnace is in order.
This is of great concern. The previous Premier unit would not call for Electric Backup Heat until the temperature was below zero for a couple days in a row.
Supposedly the problem may be in the timing for the third stage heat call. The air handler is a Bryant unit and has three settings for delay of the third stage heat, 30, 60, and 90 second. I have been told that another relay (variable delay selection more than 90 seconds) should be installed.
I am not really sure about this, trying to grasp the concept. If the second stage geothermal can not keep up with the load, the electric backup heat should kick in. The second stage heat stays on for at least an hour at times before the electric backup heat kicks in.
I think an email to Tech Support for Waterfurnace is in order.
12/14/09 @ 13:03
Comment from: Greg Lewis [Visitor]
Does anyone know if there is a minimum water temperature that a heatpump typically needs for the incoming water in order to function properly?
I live on Lake Michigan. The incoming water is quite cold, and my geothermal unit has had trouble keeping up ever since it was installed (18 months ago)...at least whenever it is cold. I am wondering if the issue is that the incoming water (at 40F or colder) is just too cold.
Thanks
I live on Lake Michigan. The incoming water is quite cold, and my geothermal unit has had trouble keeping up ever since it was installed (18 months ago)...at least whenever it is cold. I am wondering if the issue is that the incoming water (at 40F or colder) is just too cold.
Thanks
12/29/09 @ 10:11
Comment from: Duane [Member]
Greg, My loop temperature during the winter dips down to the mid 30's during the winter months. As long as the solution does not freeze, the heat pump is able to extract some heat from it.
I have noticed with my system that a day or two at 0 or below, the heat needs to be augmented by the backup heat source. With this new NDZ038 heat pump I am not looking forward to days where the temperature will be below zero for days and sometimes a week at a time. But on the other hand, I am looking at how the new heat pump performs compared to the old ES036 WaterFurnace heat pump.
Have you had a chance to look at my monitoring page? The output loop temperature sensor is currently not working. I am going to replace it soon.
I have noticed with my system that a day or two at 0 or below, the heat needs to be augmented by the backup heat source. With this new NDZ038 heat pump I am not looking forward to days where the temperature will be below zero for days and sometimes a week at a time. But on the other hand, I am looking at how the new heat pump performs compared to the old ES036 WaterFurnace heat pump.
Have you had a chance to look at my monitoring page? The output loop temperature sensor is currently not working. I am going to replace it soon.
12/29/09 @ 21:38
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